“One sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields; and as they made their way his disciples began to pluck heads of grain. The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the sabbath?” And he said to them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need of food? He entered the house of God, when Abiathar was high priest, and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and he gave some to his companions.” Then he said to them, “The sabbath was made for humankind, and not humankind for the sabbath; so the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.” Mark 2:23-28
Get the impression this was happening: “Your disciples are breathing wrong – why do you allow this? By allowing this you are wrong.”
How did Gay Sex end up in that same category? Love between two people. Just the “wrong kind of sex”. “That is unnatural and disgusting – God says (no really – God SAYS!)”
I wonder why “sex” is preferred to “love”. I wonder why love between two committed and sincere human beings (just like any of us) is decided by man and God (but the final call being of man) to be the wrong kind of “sex”.
“That is unnatural and disgusting – God says (no really – God SAYS!). See that one verse? If you read it this way and leave out that bit and that bit – it says I am right and you are wrong – God says (no really God SAYS!)””
Because there is an alternative. The bible (God?) says lots of things. But that isn’t what this is all about (is it?). So let’s forget what the bible “says” for a minute – forget the “God says this – no really God SAYS!” for a minute …
Are you are happy for me to live in your life and judge your sexual needs and your sexual desires and your sexual acts – and (obviously) those of your partner as well – to judge whether your “sex” (and your partner’s) is natural and God-approved? Not just for a brief moment – but for your entire life? Are you happy for your relationship and intimacy to be stripped of all that is good so I can focus only on the “base carnal desires” as a consequence of your love and intimacy? And are you willing to also be stripped of the accepted legal sacredness of your intimate relationship (we call that marriage) which means that your “base and carnal sex” can only (and ever) be dirty and “sinful”?
And if not all (or part) of that list – please tell me how can you assume that right over anyone else based on “evidence” you found in the bible? That is not love. That is not even loving. That is control.
And to control others we need evidence to convince that “we” are right (even if that “we” is just me) – evidence of my right to control you.
Which means that “God says” is using the Living Word of God … my Daily Bread … our Word of God … to control others.
My question is this.
Just how does that bring you (and me) closer to the God you worship and praise? Because my thought is that it distances us both. And as for the “bible says” … It also says this: “The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law.” Mark 1:22
This stuff was written 2000+ years ago.
So if it really is the Living Word today (I hear preached every Sunday) – how come “we” prefer it to be dry and dusty and dead and legal …
Unless that means we can use it to control others (legally)?
“God says – no really God SAYS – it’s in the bible – look … “
Good morning Paul,
Why indeed? This is why so many leave the Church, for the fire and brimstone sermons condemning us, for the Sacraments denied. For a Word made for death
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Good morning brother.
“For a Word made for death” I fear made by man.
Also seems like we need less brimstone and plenty of simple despondency (the theme continues in today’s post). 🙂
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Yes, I have less time of late to keep ùp with yourjam session
When we, then arrive atGod says you should not then we can move without being sure that the God squad are happy, though shalt not lie with a man as with a woman. Do you know where such have sex also take kes place between a man and a woman, then it becomes though shalt. Notbeheteral sexual.
I am guessing through the typos? 🙂
When we, then arrive at “God says” and “you should not” then we can’t move unless we are sure that the God squad are happy. However ” Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman is not so simple as the Priests thought – Do you know there are countries where anal sex also take place between a man and a woman, then it becomes thou shalt. Not be heterosexual. ha aha
Thank you for that!
The whole thing about what is “okay” sex and what is not is riddled with historical, cultural and personal bias. The point you make about anal sex being “okay” sex is never mentioned in that conversation.
I find the whole “bedroom police” thing – when used as justification for “the bible says”absent of any God, any love and any compassion. And more than that – increasingly a reason for steering clear of a church complacent in it’s hypocrisy.
That is why we leave.
You are probably aware that the same sex marriage Act has just been passed here. Now most of the denominations , the bedroom police will decide if they will allow the ceremonies in their buildings. Last Sunday week our Pastor congratulated two women who announced their engagement in church
How lovely, yet (probably) how divisive.
I find it more and more odd that a Church preaching “grace freely given”, and “unconditional love” still insists that “God didn’t mean EVERYONE” or “Love doesn’t mean THAT” or “Love means denying oneself not indulging oneself” – and then ends with “but all ARE welcome”.
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Yes, the ‘All are welcome?” We know the catholics are not going to marry a same sex couple and Sydney Anglican’s won’t. The uniting Church will take a vote at Synod that will bind every Pastor in the Church on pain of being sacked. I cannot really think that any will allow it – except the Separated Bretheren Intependent Catholics and Anglicans, MCC – metropolitan Comunity Church,and ECCA -Ecumenical Catholic Church of Australia and BMFchgurch, Blue mountains Franciscan Church. We even have the issues with Civil Celebrants wanting right of refusal. All kinds of nastiness has come over the airwaves from the World Council of Churches.
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Unconditional love. Unconditional welcome.
“We know that God really means “if … ” – and we have the proof – and it is biblical!”